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Taking the Staffroom on the road: Gatecrashing an Induction Tutor conference in East London

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You're listening to an IOE podcast. Powered by Â鶹´«Ã½ÊÓƵÍøÕ¾ Minds.Ìý

Elaine Long Ìý

Welcome to the ECF Staffroom. I'm Elaine Long.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

And I am Mark Quinn.Ìý

Elaine Long Ìý

We are programme leaders for the Â鶹´«Ã½ÊÓƵÍøÕ¾ Early Career Teacher Development Programme. Why are we in the staff room? We are here because this is where the best professional learning conversations always take place. This is where problems can be aired bluntly and where solutions can be explored.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Over the course of this series, we will hear the voices of different colleagues as they come in the ECF Staffroom. We will hear from early career teachers themselves and from the mentors and induction tutors who support them. We will talk about all things ECF, the challenges and the joys. So, why don't you enjoy a coffee with us, perhaps even grab a biscuit and sit down to half an hour of ECF Staffroom chat.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Welcome to the ECF Staffroom. Saiqua Zaneb, Tessa Blair and Lara Boyer. We are actually in the Mulberry and Bigland Green Centre dressing room, so if this sounds a bit different, that's why. All of these people, Tessa, Lara and Saiqua are all part of the East London Teaching School hub and but we're still in the staffroom, you know, we've got traditions in our staffroom and one of the traditions is that we offer you a nice drink, coffee or tea, whatever else you might want.Ìý

So. Let’s go around the room, what would you like Saiqua, Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

A coffee, please. Black, no sugar.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

That's the best way.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

Tea for me, with a bit of milk, a touch of milkÌý

Mark QuinnÌý

That's disgusting. Impossible to drink that. °Õ±ð²õ²õ²¹?Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Coffee and milk, please. I'll definitely have a biscuit.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Well, are you offering the biscuits?Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

I have brought some biscuits with me.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

We'll have some of those. I know there were nice croissants that we didn't eat at lunchtime so we can go back for those as well.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

So, we're really excited about you being here. Mainly because you bought biscuits for us so we can tell you're going to be good guests already, but our listeners are going to be wondering about why we're in the staff room together and they'll want to know a bit about you and what an average day is like for you.Ìý

So, Saiqua, could we start with you, please?Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

So, my name is like Saiqua Zaneb. As Mark has said, I am an assistant head teacher at an inner London girls School, Central Foundation. Girls. My day is hectic, so I am an induction lead. I lead on the ITT. So it's dealing with ECTs, dealing with mentors, dealing with students, dealing with staff with different things. So, my day is never the same. I have to say it's always, there's always something new and something exciting. Yeah, that's me.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

So that explains why you might need to drink so much coffee, I think because you're wearing so many different hats. Lara, could you introduce yourself to the listeners, please?Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

Yes. So, I'm Lara and I work at Mulberry Academy, Shoreditch, where I am an assistant head teacher, and I am responsible for everything to do with teacher training and that also includes the Early Teacher induction programme and I'm also in charge of the health system there. So pastorally, and I do lots of other things too, as one does as a member of SLT.Ìý

My day is very busy. Lots of meetings, observations as well, feedback to colleagues, I teach as well, duties. I mean, I wouldn't want to say too much, I wouldn't want to put anyone off. It is incredibly rewarding and it's nice to have, get to know my students and hear about them and see them in events as well and enjoying their time. So, there are lots of positives to what can be an incredibly busy day.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

Thank you, and we're really grateful that you've managed to make some time for us in that busy day. Ìý

Tessa, can you tell us a bit about your role please? Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Hi, I'm Tessa Blair. I'm the Deputy Director of the East London Teaching School Hub. I lead the strands around the initial teacher education, the early career framework and appropriate body services.Ìý

So, a really exciting role in terms of thinking about that early career teacher phase, a really important part of a teacher's career. And it's an exciting role because I'm working at school I've never worked at before, so I'm used to having a sort of a role Saiqua and Lara describing, we might be supporting professional learning across a school or a small trust of schools, but now I find myself working with, you know, hundreds of schools and across the region, and that gives me brilliant opportunities, each day to learn about their context and things that are affecting their experiences in school.Ìý

So talking to different school leaders and of course the ECT mentor participants, the range of facilitators we've got, we have 29 different school leader facilitators on our ECF programme. Saiqua and Lara omitted to say that's also part of their day job as well, really pleased that Saiqua is a mentor facilitator on the ECF programme and Lara is an ECT facilitator.Ìý

And yeah, they bring so much to the programme and that's we've really ensured that our programme is rooted in that local expertise and grounded in the practice of working in East London schools. Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

Thank you. We’re really excited about this podcast because we've got every level involved in the ECF, so that's quite interesting because we've got school level, delivery partner level and lead provider level as well.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

So, we're here because you organized this conference for your induction tutors today. Interested to know what you were hoping to get out of the conference, how you settled on the themes of today's conference.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Yeah, so this came last year, our second induction to the forum, and it came out of a desire to really think about how could we have a real impact in terms of ensuring the programme achieved the intentions, sets out in terms of the policy intentions and who were the people that were really important. And initially, you know, we toyed with headteachers, we need to get the head teachers in the room, they're the people.Ìý

Then we said, no, needs to be the mentors in the room. And then more and more and more as I went through that first year, the programme really became clear to me how fundamental induction duties were as the lead as a professional learning in the school and, you know, really ensuring that quality mentoring is happening, that the ECTs experience on a day to day basis is the best it can be, connecting them with colleagues within the school, so they see themselves as part of a genuine culture of professional learning. Ìý

Actually, it was those colleagues that we needed to build relationships with. We need to understand what the factors that were affecting the implementation of the programme at that school level, ensure that they could do the best job they could in making this happen at the school level.Ìý

So, our intentions really were to bring together those induction teachers as really key people in terms of the programme's success and give an opportunity for the learning within that group. We're really lucky in Tower Hamlets and Hackney, got fantastic school cultures, lots of high performing schools, a real commitment to quality professional learning. And so it's about tapping into that expertise in those schools and sharing it because people found solutions.Ìý

First, it wasn't ideal conditions for implementation. There was no lead in time, we were in context of the pandemic. Induction teachers in schools had to go with it, had to find solutions and you know, as a profession, that's what we do. We find solutions, we make things happen and we want to learn. And what have schools done to support the implementation of the ECF in their schools that was having an impact.Ìý

Ensure that every induction tutor had the guidance they needed to be able to have their role in schools, but also to see themselves as important people in the implementation and in the leadership of the programme at the school level and beyond. You know, and so it's about creating that professional community of induction tutors, supporting them and tapping into their experiences.Ìý

The theme was started of last year, was really around implementation and drawing on obviously the EEF guidance, the lack of lead and the lack of prepare time, actually, I think it's how we prepare for year two and we've kept with that theme because I think it's really important as we scale up to Cohort three with, you know, it's a process, not an event, implementation.Ìý

But also, we tagged in the theme this year around wellbeing and retention, going back to those original policy intentions of the ECF, which I think is really key that we're mindful of what we're actually trying to achieve in all of this and also trying to take on, to be honest, tackle head on some of the misconceptions around the ECF and the limitations.Ìý

So, the theme last year was around agency and how can we ensure that the ECF support agency for ECTs and this year is around wellbeing and retention. Because I want everyone on our programme to see the flexibilities available. I really wanted to showcase that the fantastic wellbeing charter that Â鶹´«Ã½ÊÓƵÍøÕ¾ have created, because my concerns are that if schools don't understand the opportunities and flexibility, contextualization and make it work at a school level and that requires, induction tutors to do that, people will opt out of this and they will go to school based routes or core induction programme routes and will lose some of the impact we could have.Ìý

So, it was around, if I'm very honest, I thought this time this year we'd have more schools opting out of our programme. I thought by this point some schools will be saying, Oh, we've been through two years, we can do this ourselves. Now, we haven't had a single school tell us that that's the case. But I think we do need to always be mindful of we've got to continue to talk about the benefits and the impact it can have in terms of those priorities.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Yeah, that's really interesting, isn't it? Because I think we might all of us assume that that might be that drift of schools away from full induction programmes, facilitated programmes to what they could manage more themselves and in a way that might be a healthy sign for some of the schools have the capacity for that but don’t you set up very ambitious targets for yourself for today's conference, and of course, Laura and Saiqua, you are the only facilitators who are also induction tutors in your school. So, you're the target audience today? Partly, so what did you get out of today what Tessa hoped you'd get out of today? What were your main takeaways? Lara, you can go firstÌý

Lara BoyerÌý

Yeah, I think. I think we were in a really privileged position. I'm speaking on behalf of myself and others who were leading, for instance, the round table activities where we were sharing what has and will support successful implementation of the ECT induction programme. And even from leading those discussions, I found I was learning from others as well, and so I think what I took away from it is that it doesn't matter how experienced you are, we can all learn and continue to learn from each other, and that was really powerful.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Saiqua..

Saiqua ZanebÌý

You know, I loved the conference today. One of the things that Tessa talks about in East London Teaching School Hub is about is collegiality and working with our peers and learning from our peers. And I think it gave us that real opportunity to talk to one another about opportunities within the ECF, challenges within the ECF, and how we would overcome them and have real conversations with each other and actually have those very, very clear messages because that was one of the key things around what our core beliefs when we're delivering the ECF, what are we saying, how we communicate that within our schools to other ECTs, to other people about what the ECF is about? Do we believe in it as individuals, or are we just taking it on as a as a you know, we have to do this? And is that in our messaging, because often your messaging is what your beliefs say that it is.Ìý

And, you know, if you don't believe in something properly, your messaging is going to be quite negative. I took that on board last year. There was something that was said in one of the NPQTL briefings last year, and I took the on board and took that way to the school with me. I did start to look at the ECF in a lot more detail and think about what are my messages that I want my ECTs to have about this.Ìý

I want them to ignore all of the things that the media are communicating, all of the negativity that other schools breed. ÌýI want them to look at this as an opportunity. I liked some of the things that were said. You know, the programme is a guidebook, not a rule book, and I'm going to use that phrase. I think, I did love the wellbeing charter.Ìý

I'm going to laminate it and put it in all ECT offices because I think it gets lost in the messages, and they need to see, we have their wellbeing at the heart of this. It is a challenging programme, but if it wasn't challenging, we wouldn't be getting the professionals that we want to come into the profession.Ìý

That's the whole point of having a challenging programme. We want to attract professionals into this, into this profession, and we want them to come in and feel intellectual, curious and want to engage with the research to become innovative. And this gives them the opportunity to do that. I think that messaging has got lost and as professionals, as induction leads will take going away from today, we're going to be reiterating those messages again and saying those things. How many times conveying messages. But, you know, that's one of the key things and just talking to other induction leads was really, really positive. I really enjoyed that.Ìý

Mark Quinn

I think it's really important to remember, we talk a lot about the communities that we put our ECTs in and put our mentors in. Actually, what was interesting today is that we've got induction tutors who are seeing themselves as part of that community as well. And many of them talked about how the other colleagues in their school are important to this as well. So if you're an ECT working in a department, it's not just your mentoring you need to be learning from and learning with, it's the other teachers, you know, along the same corridor that you want to.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

I take that on board completely because I was sitting there last year and Tessa, and this was the first time I was sitting there with this induction form and it was talking about taking all of these things back to your governors, back to the teachers and back to ALT and I thought, wow, that's what I need to do.Ìý

Nobody in my school knows what this is about. I have to educate them. I have to tell them. And the first thing I did when I went back is I said to my head teacher, Can I have a go this morning and invite the governors in and speak to them about ITT and the changes and the impact that this will have and get them to speak to my ECTs, get them to speak to my mentors, because actually, once they see the power of what we're trying to achieve and how this will help support us and what we need to put into place, it will actually help.Ìý

I think that was a really powerful, powerful time. And then I went, and I actually got them to do a self-study from the ECF and then I repeated that with my SLT team. So, I introduced the ITT programme in the ECF programme and I made them read one of the self-studies. And I said, this is one of the ones that they're engaging with, let me know your thoughts on that. And, it was like, wow, this is the level of things that they're engaging with. So, we need to have different expectations. We need to think differently. And it was really, really, really powerful, and I took that, while I was sitting there, that was the spark and I've got all the sparks I've taken from, this time and I'm going to start over in September.Ìý

I think these things are important. These conferences are really important to have that.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

The one thing you talked about, both of you actually was the contribution around relational resilience. I think that really reinforced the importance of seeing yourself as part of that community. And we want our ECTs to be nested, don't we and really positive, powerful professional communities. Ìý

The mentors are part of that, induction tutors are part of that, but their role in some ways is to create those networks that will last beyond the ECF programme.Ìý

So, they've got two years, which is great, but we want them to be set up totally for continuous professional learning, and that's often informal and it's often colleague to colleague, peer learning rather than seeing themselves as isolated. So, it's great that people see that.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

Saiqua, I also lucky enough to be sat on a table with you today. When you were discussing with other induction tutors, what you do to support mentors understanding of the ECF in your school, and I wondered if you could just talk to that a bit because that was one of my sparks as well.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Last year. I'm going back to last year again because when I was sitting there were thinking, oh my God, my role as an induction lead is actually to support my mentors as well. It's not just my ECTs because I know when I did the old framework, it was very much about the NQTs, getting them passed, getting their folded evidence, moving towards those final standards.Ìý

And there is a difference in emphasis with the ECF framework. We have the whole focus on mental development and I and I thought, I'm not doing that, and much like some of the teachers that was the induction leaves that were in the programme say, oh, we're not doing that. I thought that has to change. So, I looked at the programme just to familiarize myself with it, the module programme and did something that I'd seen Tessa do in one of the induction drop-ins, which is go through and decode the programme. Ìý

And then I had a mentor Drop-ins, which I organized and decoded the programme with them and said, well, what opportunities do we have? Where the struggles are going to be? How can we have this in alignment with what you were doing? I also asked them to log their mentor meetings and I can see what standards they're working on and any themes that are emerging in terms of the development or the ECTs development.Ìý

I can then pick on and say what we need to look at sequencing in lessons or we need to look at behaviour patterns and I can support them that way. So, it's about looking at working with the ECF and the training and seeing how we can support them and what we can do. But being mindful of time so often I have to bribe them with like cake and biscuits and coffee and tea.Ìý

But it's opportunity for all mentors to sit together. But also, I know when the mentor meetings are happening because I've asked them to log it and I know it sounds like I'm monitoring a lot and it's not about that. It is about support, it is about knowing when the mentor meetings are and just dropping in and saying, Hi, how's it going, how's it going? I noticed on your mentor notes, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, I'm engaging with the conversation. I'm part of that journey with them. And I think sometimes they feel a bit more empowered or, you know, it's not just us on our own, because originally it was a bit isolating because it was just the mentor and the mentee and they felt like it was just them going through this process and as the induction lead, I was just coming in with my tick board and doing my observations. I was like, No, I'm not going to do that. But also looking at the mentor logs, looking at observations, listening to mentors, having those drop ins, it gave me an idea, well these mentor and mentees are quite, quite strong in their relationship.Ìý

This mentor mentee need a bit of development. Let's pair them together and help them to develop together. So having like four of them in the group, holding group mentor session so they can learn from each other and they can develop ideas because we need to invest in them. It's the mentors, they're the cogs, they have the things that help everything to happen, and that ECTs are where the magic happens. It's really important that we invest in them and that's what I took away.Ìý

Tess BlairÌý

And actually, if I could just add to that something that we introduced about a year ago at Mulberry Academy, Shoreditch, in recognition of the role of the mentor and their importance is we've done that through performance management, which is quite unique. So that's something that we've done that very much like you said, in a trust, it's a lot of it is around communication.Ìý

So before the end of the year, I meet with the mentors who I know will be mentoring ECTs the following year. Those who are staying with us and I give them the background, give them an introduction to the induction programme in terms of, you know, what does it look like for the ECT, but also what does it look like for them?Ìý

And I do the same thing with our new ECTs who are joining the school. For instance, when they come to the induction day, I will do a presentation to them just so that they can see what it looks like. And then again I meet them again in September. And again we go through this again and it's just sort of reinforcing, embedding what the programme looks like, what they're going to get out of it.Ìý

But for me, it's very that the success for me has been around communication. It's been key. And the other thing that we do as induction leaders is we meet with our ECTs termly before we do the progress reviews, we complete the reports. And that time has been absolutely crucial really because while you are meeting the ECTs and giving them a voice because it's important they have a voice in this programme too, and talk about, you know, how they're doing.Ìý

But it's also, you're finding out about their entitlements as well. And you're asking them how the mentors meetings are going. And sometimes it's through that conversation that you are picking up on perhaps the odd mentor meeting has been missed and you need time and it's from there that then you would be able to sort of speak to the mentor and kind of, you know, find out what's going on, and very often it's something very simple, but it's having the opportunity to speak to the ECT, which is very important and the mentors, I mean, we talk to each other all the time. We're always having informal conversations. I get them involved in observations because I think they know their ECT really well. They have that knowledge and understanding of their ECTs, so it's really good for them to be part of that and it's really good CPD for them as well to be in the room as well and observing.Ìý

So,I think it's all about communication and I think we're in a really Ìýfortunate position, Saiqua and I because we are members of SLT, we’re able to raise awareness around the programme, around the table, and so for us that's a real advantage.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Yeah, I agree. As a member of SLT, I think it's a real advantage because it's an opportunity to say, I'd like SLT line managers to talk to the head of the faculty and find out how their mentors are doing, if any support is needed. Can that be fed back to me by this table? So actually, what you're doing is you're creating a community around the ECT and the mentor to support them.Ìý

It is very, very powerful because everyone then feels that they're involved and it takes away this whole I'm the mentor, It's all on my shoulders, the workload. It's not. It's about making sure things are happening that are supposed to be happening, but making sure that we're offering the right support when it's needed and that they're not alone.Ìý

They are part of our school community, and we have a responsibility to them. Yeah, I think that's really important and I think sorry, I think that the, when we have one to ones, I have check ins in the first half term with all my ECTs. I think they're really important and I have the one hour meetings as well and I really, really have enjoyed sitting down with the ECTs, not just talking through teaching standards, but saying, okay, what have you done here? What have you done? How did this develop you? What would you like to do? Is there anything you'd like to see and making those opportunities available? I think those, and it's very powerful to have that transparency because it builds trust, which is important on the programme, I thinkÌý

Elaine LongÌý

It's really interesting what I can hear from both of you just speaking is a real sense of pride and enjoyment in what you do because actually it's that excitement of developing others and seeing the impact. And also there's a real danger, I think, as an induction teacher in the school that your to do list could just be huge because let's be honest, the mechanics of it and all the different portals and registering feels like quite a lot, but it sounds like what you quite skilfully done is made it part of the day to day culture of the school. So, everyone's involved and you're very humble about that, but that would have taken a huge amount of proactive effort from you. And I think that advice is very useful for other induction tutors listening. Ìý

I'm going to move the topic on a little bit because when we were having lunch, we were lucky enough to see and look through lots of the practitioner inquiries on the wall and the presentations of those, that was really exciting and confirmed for us what we already know that practitioner inquiry can have a huge impact on ECTS and schools and it's a professional learning activity that they really enjoy and adds to their sense of valuing professional learning, and that's a sense of self efficacy, and it's really nice when they can share that with other colleagues in their school. Ìý

Mentors obviously play a huge role in that and the mentor meetings during that practitioner inquiry are really important to make sure they're on the right track because although they're given a great deal of autonomy in this, they still need that challenge and that level of direction.Ìý

Can you give us any advice on how induction tutors can approach that in schools to make sure that those mentor meetings are happening well?

Saiqua ZanebÌý

I think in the first instance it's important for you as induction tutor to get your head around what the inquiry, what the inquiry project should look like. I have to say it was one of my most enjoyable parts of the ECF. I mean all the other parts of the ECF are all good fun, but the inquiry project and just watching the mentors and the mentees go through it, that was on another level.Ìý

They were engaging in professional learning that were going to the research and then they were analyzing their own practice. And it was one key area of their practice that they were looking at. And at first it was this overwhelming, Oh my God, I don't know what to do. So I ran a workshop for them with them to talk about, well, these are the different types of inquiry, this is what is expected to give them that time to reflect and think, and then a joint one with their mentors to try and get to grips with what is it that they're looking at? What is it that we can actually achieve numerous time? It was really interesting to see because the mentors became invested in the inquiry project and organically they started to do their own inquiry projects alongside their mentors. So, they were looking at similar things together. It was interesting to see that and I was thinking, Oh my worth, this is this is actually real.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

It seems organic, I'm not sure that would work because, okay, might be organic. You have to lay the sort of.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

You have to facilitate it. You're right. Yeah.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

So can you shed any light on that? What was it you're creating so that that kind of organic growth can take place?Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

So you give them, you talk about coming up with the inquiry question and making sure it's feasible and you do that together as a mentor, mentee and then you support as an induction lead, you help them develop that, you help them tweak that, you then talk to them about what support is needed., but you drop into their meetings to help, to say, Well, do you need to do some student voice?Ìý

You need to go and look at other subjects? What is it that you need in order to develop this? And you create time within the year because they're meeting their ECTs every two weeks. So you look at this like when you think, when can I meet them together as a group so we can share their ideas and you can bounce off each other.Ìý

These are the challenges I'm having. My ECT question, my inquiry question has failed. Okay. It's okay to fail and you can tweak it slightly or you can change it if it's not the right question. Often, I think that was why the first two cycles were powerful because getting the question right was really important. What is the inquiry?Ìý

I remember one of my ECTs, he said to me, I failed and I said, No, we don't fail. It's research. We don't fail. We learn from it. What is it that's gone wrong? Right now how can we change it in order for you to to see success and take something away with it? And then he went away second time around, tweaked it, tweaked it again, and then the third question was actually the one that he was like, This is actually what I wanted. This is what I wanted to see. I just couldn't get it right the first time. And it was really good for them to do the two half cycles in order to be prepared to do the full cycle the third time.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

The two half cycles are about the exploratory inquiries that we.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Developing the question and then doing some research. Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

That's right. So, the first two modules of the year of the second year, we do those two short inquiries. And then the longer inquiry, which we call an exploratory inquiry, which is where you're saying your colleague actually found their feet with that one.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

The evaluative.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Excellent. Excellent. Well tutored there so and, and so your mentors would do the inquiries alongside them as well, and then you were sharing the inquiry.

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Oh, so this is really, really good. We we set up a formal share. So, we had the LP team, we had a deputy head, we had myself, and then the mentors decided that they wanted to come to support their ECTs, but also to drop in with their ideas at the end, when we were having part of our questions and I invited the ECT 1s to come and see with what the ECT 2s were doing.Ìý

It was a room full of people and it was only supposed to be a few. And then they were nervous. But it really validated that what they were doing was important and the LP team was so struck, they felt so inspired by what they were seeing and how these ECTs had really taken the inquiry question seriously and found something to change their practice moving forward and how it was influencing moving into the department.Ìý

So, our maths teacher looked at how effective our retrieval questions in improving student grades and had done a whole load of research, had taken it to his faculty meetings and now they're going to cascade that out to the whole department so he, he can instantly see, oh, this is important. But as part of his inquiry at the end when he was evaluating, he said Next year I'm going to look at this, this and this.Ìý

I thought, that's interesting because you don't have to do an inquiry question next year. But it was their own need to think, okay, actually this is a good way of doing it. When I move forward, I'm going to tweak this in my practice and tweak this in my practice. And then we shared the LP team, then chaired their inquiry questions and what they'd taken from it in a staff forum.Ìý

So in the staff briefing and congratulated them openly because we are about celebrating what our ECTs are doing it and raising the profile of it? And we did frame it under the ECF. So this is what the ECF is for, and it's about that positive messaging as well. And you know, this is what our staff have achieved being part of the ECF, you wouldn't get this anywhere else. And I think that was really, I felt inspired. I remember sitting there thinking, Oh wow, this is amazing. Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Learning from them.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

But learning from them. I mean, we're thinking about how we can now look at what they've done and get them to lead on inquiry projects next year for others. And I've asked for my own inquiry project for the ECT, for my own inquiry group, for ECT too. So, I've got that extra time to invest in them with their mentors next year because I didn't do that this year and that's something that I've learned and I'm going to take forward. But it's evolving and I think the more we do it, the more impact we see, and we can showcase, the more schools will see the benefit of this and this is what we want. We want staff, professionally curious who want to develop in their profession and want to make change happen and we want them to be excited about the profession in the way that that we know that they can be. I think this is the vehicle to do it with. That's my personal opinion.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

So, I think you're right, and as an induction tutor, you know, we have our role, which is to ensure that everyone's doing what they need to be doing and monitoring the different aspects of the programme that, you know, that the ECT is getting the idea that they should be getting. But, you know, what I do in my mentor meetings, in my meeting with my ECT, especially in year two, Ìý

I start asking about inquiry, finding out how they're getting on with it and you can really tell that the, you know, their mentors are invested in those inquiries, really supporting them around those questions, guiding them when it comes to that, the evidence and I think, you know, as the facilitator, we spend a lot of time talking about not sort of trying to, we're always thinking about the load, the workload and encouraging our ECTs to use naturally occurring data in all these things.Ìý

It's so great to see that going on in those mentor meetings from what the ECTs are telling me and then what I also do is I, particularly recently when I've asked my ECTs, Oh, how has your presentation with your mentor gone? And and, you know, she said, Oh yeah, I'm presenting to the to the department. And that's exactly what you want.Ìý

I mean, that's why in the conversations I've had informally, you know, I've had this conversation too. I must, you know, you must come and present and and I have had a couple of ECTS presents on professional studies group, which was fantastic. But what was so nice to see is that it was happening naturally and that showed that some, that investment in that their ECTs inquiry and the fact that they're wanting to support their ECT. Ìý

Very often the mentor is also within the department, so, there’s so much that can be shared, and you know within the department and that's why, you know, it's even more important for us to share it across to school as well. So, you know, that's one that we really support at Mulberry Academy Shoreditch is that sharing and I know it's something I mentioned at the very beginning, even for us as induction tutors when we come to this event like today, you know, looking to learn from others, and I think it's the same for ECTS, you know, the opportunity to learn from each other's inquiries and, you know, ensure that we are making progress within our own schools and, you know, driving certain things through. But anyway, I could be talking about it for a long time, but.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

I love the way you said that that was starting to happen naturally as well, because then to come back to what we were talking about this morning, about making something not just possible, but likely it sounds like at both your schools, it's incredibly likely that ECTs are going to feel that passion about inquiry and incredibly likely that they're going gain a great deal of satisfaction.Ìý

So, at your schools, it's not just possible, it's likely. And that's because of the culture that you've created as induction tutors, I think. Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

It's not just likely but unavoidable.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

They’ve been really part of that culture, but it goes beyond that, doesn't it, Thinking about, No, we've got with us those two exceptional induction tutors who invested in fantastic professional learning cultures. I think it's worth recognizing that not every school culture is like that. The work we all have to do in recognizing where our induction tutors are and some of the constraints that exist on their work.Ìý

And I think that's why today is important, because we can have these fantastic models and people can be inspired, a little intimidated, but hopefully inspired and take ideas, but also recognize the impact they could have and the work that they can have. Ìý

So, all that work you've done in terms of ensuring, you know, your headteachers, the line managers, phase leaders, heads of department, understands this, and the seeing those positive messages is really important part of it, isn't it, in terms of sort of leveraging the impact and seeing yourselves as those leaders of teacher development and teacher educators in your own right. I think that's really exciting because actually when we think about pathways professional learning, we want our experience teachers as well, to recognize those options for their leadership development actually, that if you conceive yourself as you clearly do, as leaders of teacher development, as teacher educators in your own right, that's a professional pathway for you to. You don't necessarily to be head of year or progress to deputy headship. We want you both to be headteachers that you know, this is also important work, too.Ìý

I think that's really important. But the schools invested in you as well. So, I know, for example, Saiqua has quite a lot of leadership time directed to this work and Lara is obviously working with 25 ECTs next year. So they are in a very particular position. I think we need to, listeners who are maybe not in that contrast to think about what are the little steps to support that.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

There are some induction tutors that I think you had some today who were doing this for the first time or they might have just one ECT, they have one last year. So they're not developing habits of around leading induction or making the best out of a programme because they had a chance to do that.Ìý

And so, I think you're absolutely right to shine a light on those differences and that will be recognized, I think, by other people listening to this podcast. But one of things I was saying earlier was about what we know about the importance of a pro-growth professional growth culture in a school. And that combination of that with programmes such as ours can really make a difference to the satisfaction of the ECTs and our intentions to stay in teaching.Ìý

But I think I presented this professional growth culture as something preexisting in the school. I think what we're hearing from Saiqua and Lara and what we heard from others during the conference that you can create that professional growth culture, you know, it's not something that has to pre exist. You can make that happen alongside a programme such as this.Ìý

I think that that's important to to remember that as well as tough as it is. I was going to say, Tessa, if you were thinking about those induction tutors, perhaps you aren't as lucky as Lara, as lucky as Saiqua, having that kind of opportunities that they have and the experience that they have. Are there one or two things that you would want those less experienced or less lucky induction tutors and one or two bits of advice you would give them?Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

I think for me, a very basic level, it's about understanding the statutory induction guidance because that's a powerful lever for professional learning. I mean, I know it sounds like it's about minimum entitlement, but actually if we get those bits right and we see within that, you know, a commitment to regular, high quality mentoring, you need to ensure those mentors are supported and that they have the capacity and expertise to have that role.Ìý

You’ve got that time to engage in the professional learning in the mentor meetings within the school day that I think that that can be very powerful. So, you know, what I talk to? It's often mentors who, you know, say they don't have the time, they're not supported at school level do this, perhaps because the induction tutor doesn't have, they don't see themselves as being in that powerful position.Ìý

They don't feel like agency to create the right conditions for mentoring. Actually, the statutory induction guidance and the role of the appropriate body can be very powerful. I think that'll become easier next year as we transition, obviously to teaching school hubs who are often delivery partners, particularly within our region, to have that quality assurance role, because where we have concerns about the mentoring not being that with the induction tutor not having the support for the head teacher in their role, actually we can draw back on that.Ìý

So that sounds negative. I think there's a balance, isn't it? We've created really, I think hopefully positive professional conversations today to kind of inspire and share and create those networks and those communities where induction teachers can learn from each other and seek support. But also remember that this is supported by legislation and by an entitlement. Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

I think that word entitlements means actually that, it is an entitlement, and that doesn't mean that the ECTs deserve it. That is behind the programme as well. We think they deserve this programme of development. Hard to believe, but I know you two also wear different hats. You do even more than just your induction tutor role and that you're also facilitators on the programme as well.Ìý

So, thinking about your hat as a facilitator now, how would you support ECTs with practitioner inquiry in your facilitated sessions?Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

So as a facilitator, we support our ECTS by reminding them of the inquiry process and then that's part of the programme Mark has designed.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

I watched you do it.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

I think what's really strong is that every beginning of every session we go over what does the inquiry process look like? So they have a really clear understanding of the different stages. We give them an opportunity as well to review where they're at in their inquiry. So every session at least the last two modules, we have an opportunity at the beginning for them to talk about what they've learned so much.Ìý

And again, I think that's really important to the learning. We look at aspects of the inquiry. I think I mentioned data collection earlier in a naturally occurring data. All sorts of things again would support them in their inquiry. But I think ultimately it's the resources that allows us as facilitators to support this high quality practitioner inquiry, and so that's thanks to you Mark.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

So, it's natural and I think Saiqua may find this harder to answer because it's like it's working with year one mentor. So, she hasn't come on to be on to the inquiry. I think a lot of the things you've been talking about in terms of your support of mentors within school which would tap into this, I think.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

I think I've done a lot of work in school with mentors, and I did get excited when I got to introduce the Year 2 Inquiry project at the last facilitator conference, and then I think, that was really nice. The staff came up to me and they said, Oh really? What did you do here? We did this, we did this and that. Wow. And a lot of them I saw today in the hall, and you recognize me and it's like, Yeah, what did you do here? So, I think it is about, and we shared contact details and now we can talk to each other in different schools and find out what we're doing for inquiry projects and work together if we need to.Ìý

I think the key message is just to make sure that the mentors feel empowered enough to support their ECTs and the ECTs are clear about what they're doing and to know that it's okay not to have a perfect question, but it's a process and they have to go through the process. But actually, there is a long-term benefit and they will take something from this, and I think that's important and to know that the ECF is there to support them and they can dip into parts of the ECF, It's not they're not just going to go away and do a completely separate inquiry. I said this to my mentors and and the ECTs, I said, go back to the ECF, was a particular aspect that particularly excited you? Was that something that engaged you or was there something that you weren't quite sure of? Is there something about your practice you want to change? Can you marry the two up and use this opportunity to develop that. Ìý

So, it is quite an interesting way of doing it. But I think you as induction tutor need to know your staff need to know the context and need to have a good understanding, unfortunately, of the ECF so that you can, you can help support and direct them. But I mean, you do, you do get a good idea once you start going through it with your mentors and start going through it ECTs. I mean, I don't know a lot, Tessa can probably recite every ECF part.Ìý

But it helps you develop as an individual when it helps you make links, and it helps you to support them. I think. So, it's quite inspirational.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Also, as a facilitator, I mean, I mentioned a lot of, sort of supporting one another, sharing, reviewing, but actually we need to challenge them. And you know, that's something that that really came to light that when you came to see us, Mark, you came to to observe our session and get some really good ideas and tweaks around how we can, you know, we can support that idea about challenging and getting them to challenge each other.Ìý

I think that's something really important about, you know, if you're a facilitator, it, you know, you can follow the programme but actually it's about getting them to ask each other those questions that really gets them to think outside the box sometimes. I thought that was really good feedback and that's something my colleague and I, we, I've done, and I implemented after that.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Yeah, I think I think as a facilitator, one of the things you've got to remember is you're offering something that there may not be getting in school, so they may be in schools that don't have a tradition of, of action inquiry or practitioner inquiry in the schools. Mentors may not feel very skilled at supporting that. And so, you know, the facilitators, we have an opportunity with a programme like this, any school which is part of the full induction programme with us, has the access to well-trained facilitators who really understand the programme, who are passionate about inquiry as a method of professional learning.Ìý

So, it's actually it's quite a big thing to to to take that to ECTs and to mentors and as you say, maybe disturb them a little bit, you know, challenge them a little bit. Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Each others devils advocate.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

One thing I thought was really powerful that will definitely do next year as well is that joint session early on. So, whether mentor, the ECT worked together on that first inquiry question, and I think everyone felt at that point, well, we don't haven't been through this. We don't quite know what we're doing.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Felt risky, didn’t it.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

It did and some ECTS and mentors felt overwhelmed in that first half term. They felt the need to do everything, the full cycle, you know, grapple with each of the teacher standards, you know, the whole module in six weeks as well as work out all the new classrooms and work out whether books are and get the shape of the new classroom sorted, etc..Ìý

Actually, I think this year we'll be able to support them through that a lot better in terms of managing those expectations because it was a lot of kind of myth busting was required, wasn't it?Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

I think exactly, practitioner can be a bit like Marmite. We don't challenge those misconceptions because it can be completely the transformational experiential describing in your schools, but people do have these misconceptions that they've somehow got to write big, long essays or they've got to cover everything in six weeks. Then it does become a burden to workload, and I think so part of the role of facilitator, an induction tutor. So, what I mentors to do it, is to be challenging those misconceptions and making sure that practitioner inquiry is something that supports work life in the sense that actually it shouldn't be an addition, ECTs should be using it to address the problem of practice they already have.Ìý

You know, how do I motivate these three year 9 students that I've got to motivate? Well, it's a methodology you can apply to help you solve problems you already have, not an addition. I think that messaging is hugely important. Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

It's a way of growing as a model of professional learning or something, I’ve forgotten the word.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

The mindset Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

Yeah, exactly. That kind of inquiry mindset. And Once people start to understand that rather than it's a thing to do. But it is an approach to your practice and your learning becomes very powerful. And that's why it's so helpful, isn't it, to go through it three times, you know, because you, we're repeating it, we are practicing it, getting better actually, at the inquiry process in itself.Ìý

One of the things the materials does really well is support them to think about the process, those review questions which encourage them to think very carefully about what did you learn about the process of inquiry from last module? How is that going to shape your inquiry this half term? Which is key and we're really lucky as a lot of beginning teachers coming through, having experienced that model of questioning.Ìý

Within their initial teacher education. So, you know, those on the Â鶹´«Ã½ÊÓƵÍøÕ¾, PDC will say and we've done this before, and it's great if they've got those positive experiences, hopefully, and then applying it within a new context.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

And then you'll have people like you said, Saiqua, who just naturally go on to do it, the other inquiry as they go into the third year of teaching and I mean know, you never even prompted them to do it, but that's, that's why they think that they have to learn and continue to learn that way.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

I think it's really important, and like you said, my mentors were very overwhelmed and so were my ECTs when they first started and it was about sitting down and decoding for them, what does this mean on the ground? What is it all about? Why are you doing? It is another thing, another layer that they're asking us to do to qualify.Ìý

I was like, no, actually there is deep rooted meaning to what we are asking you to do. And then when they'd gone through the excitement of, Oh my God, this is the value of doing something like this, and this is actually a skill and I'm going to take this forward and I'm going to develop and having them then talk to the new ECT 1s that are becoming ECT 2s, to kind of demystify it for them and say to them, we were there and we know how hard it can be.Ìý

The programme is set up beautifully to go back and review the questions and give them opportunities to think about the process. It's not just that you have to do it and we want to do this. It's developmental it's not just discrete and you do as an induction tutor, have to create that culture in your school.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Very soon, especially if you've got so many ECTs as you have Lara, very soon you're going to have ECTs from two or three years ago being your mentors.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Absolutely. In fact, that's happening next year. What's so exciting is that they are excited, but not them, by the way, we'd love you to be a mentor, and honestly, they’re sort of beaming. Oh, this is brilliant. I get to be on the other side and know that I’ve sate the programme. No, it’s been really nice to see that.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

So, you must have some favourite questions that some of your ECTs have been doing. So they presented them to you, or maybe because they're just really good questions or because of the impact you could see it had on those individuals or on others in the school.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

For me, probably because of this one in particular, because I work closely with this teacher, amazing teacher, French and Spanish teacher, he and I share a year 13 class. But his inquiry wasn't round, Year 13, really, it was around sort of year 9. But he's a fellow language teacher and his question was to what extent does providing students with a choice of support improve progress and motivation in writing tasks?Ìý

Now he presented to the language department, the faculty, and it was just such a pleasure to sit there and listen. He prepared this PowerPoint and and it was it was very, very interesting to see how the impact that that's had as a result. So as a result of that, he and I have been given an activity, a task to do.Ìý

We've got to create a poster, looking at the different milestones to reach. So as a motivator for students who, you know, to want to get to a certain level in their writing and be really clear on how to progress in writing through the different stages. And it immediately reminded me of the Â鶹´«Ã½ÊÓƵÍøÕ¾, the picture where you've got the sort of the road.Ìý

So I've, you know, we're going to go away and create something with those different milestones of writing sort of gets these students in, it’s all about motivation in that that was essentially the outcome of, of his piece was, you know, was the fact that we needed to increase motivation in our language learners so that they feel motivated to write in French or Spanish. Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

Really nice that he's focused on motivation as well because that can sometimes get lost, I think, when ECTs are applying the framework, they sometimes forget about motivation and how important it is. So I'm really pleased that one of your ECTs has looked at that and I love the way that you've got a piece of homework as well.

Saiqua ZanebÌý

My one is around; I’ve got 2 actually that struck a chord. One was with one of my English teachers and she's been struggling with providing opportunities that engage and help students to retain things in their long-term memory, specifically to SEND students. And she focused on how effective are three discourse markers to help three specific students in in her English lessons, because it was something that she was struggling with and she wanted to develop for herself.Ìý

As she went through the process and tweaked it and looked at the student's work and realized it was successful and then tweaked it again, you could really see her confidence developing as the students showed that they were really engaging with what she was doing for them. And she was using these three discourse markers, and how she was using them and applying them, and how they work was being transformed.Ìý

So, you saw her feeling more confident in her practice and the students being more confident in what they were doing. So, it almost became a mutual relationship of, well, this is actually quite good because I'm helping you and I'm helping myself. She's now going to use it whole department and introduce it whole department. So that was quite positive.Ìý

The second one was about the retrieval questions and improving student grades. He really struggled at the beginning with his inquiry question. He wants to do something whole school, I was just like no, in your classroom, in your practice, very ambitious in terms of what you wanted to achieve was one thing that you can take away, that you can change that and make your practice better.Ìý

Now he's gone through creating these retrievals, the different types of grades and looking at the most effective way of engaging students and seeing how students can actually make progress through these activities. And he's introducing them to start in September across the whole department. So that's he's, he's implementing that. Again, it's, he was very against doing this inquiry project, this is another thing that they're asking us to do, we’re jumping through hoops, blah blah, I was like, no I don’t think you are. Ìý

Let's give it a go and he's my best advocate for it right now, and I had him speak to staff and I had him speak to other other members of the LP team and the leadership team. And he was really engaging them, and I thought, oh, my gosh, I wish I could go back in time and give you a hologram of yourself speaking right now, those were the two things that particularly stuck out for me.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

We need to get him into the staffroom.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

It’s really interesting that he started off so reluctant. But he's now become an advocate of it and probably speaks to the impact of suddenly realizing that you can develop, and you can have an influence on others and how nice of an ECT to be able to influence the rest of their department and have that voice. Ìý

So many things to talk about, but I'm conscious that you all have to get back to your busy school life. So, we have a tradition in the staffroom, that when we get to the end of our conversations, we hand you all a Post-it note. Here you are, and on that Post-it note, you can write anything you want and you can stick that Post-it note anywhere you want. You might like to stick the Post-it note on Mark's desk when he's writing the content or my desk or in the toilets of a school, on an ECTs desk, wherever you like.Ìý

So Saiqua can I start with you. What would you put on your Post-it note and where would you stick it?Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Start small. Start small. Don't be afraid and be ready to challenge, I think, Ìý

Elaine Long Ìý

Where would you stick it?Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

I would stick it in front of my desk and every ECTs desk.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Note to yourself.Ìý

Saiqua ZanebÌý

Note to myself, note to my mentors, note to my ECTs and then keep and keep reminding them that you can start really, really small, especially as a programme, you know, I can be ambitious for the programme, but it's the small things, it's the statutory things, are all the key things in place right now? I want to be ambitious, what can I do next? All right. What do you want to achieve in your ECT year? Let's start small and do it as a mentor. What do you want to achieve? So, it's that kind of a reminder? Yeah, that's what I'd say.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

So, start small. A good reminder. Lara?Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

Mine would say Share, share, share your inquiry. I think that is, you know, they get to the end of the second year, they've done all this work around inquiry and they've learned a lot from it and we could all learn from them. And I think this is absolutely essential that we learn from them, our departments learn from them.Ìý

So yeah, so it's a big, big share and that share would go everywhere around the school. Obviously on my desk as well. Just a reminder to my, you know, to me to, to make sure that they are sharing with their departments and with the school. But, but yeah, it would be absolutely everywhere.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

That's good enough. That’s a nice easy word to put on a Post-it note.Ìý

Lara BoyerÌý

²Ñ±ð³¾´Ç°ù²¹²ú±ô±ð.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

°Õ±ð²õ²õ²¹?Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

I think mine would be for headteachers and school leaders and I'd be thinking about recognizing the investment in early career teach development is actually an investment in transforming professional cultures within their school. So we've heard today, haven't we, about the way these inquiry projects are spilling out into lead practitioner impacts, being shared at department level, talked about ECTs being excited about becoming mentors.Ìý

We can see the way that actually a programme is designed for early career teachers is having a transformative effect on those cultures and schools. When we think about recruitment and retention of our brilliant workforce, actually this programme is having that impact, have the potential to have an impact every level. Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

Oh, wow. So, we actually have a bell So that's that's telling us that we need to get out, even that the Mulberry and Bigland Green’s Centre has its own bell. Who would have known it?Ìý

Look, it's been inspirational for us. It's very unusual for us to be able to go in to actual teachers and not have this virtual ECF staffroom.Ìý

So, we're really, really delighted. So, thank you, Saiqua, thank you, Laura, thank you, Tessa, for the time you've given us today, and we look forward to the next conference you’ve organized for us. We'll be sure to come.Ìý

Tessa BlairÌý

And thank you for your contributions today.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

It was a pleasure.Ìý

Tessa Blair, Lara Boyer, Saiqua Zaneb Ìý

Thank you. Thank you.Ìý

Mark QuinnÌý

You were listening to Tessa Blair, Deputy Director of the East London Teaching School Hub, Lara Boyer, Induction Tutor at Mulberry Academy, Shoreditch, and Saiqua Zaneb, Induction Tutor at Central Foundation School for Girls in Tower Hamlets. Laura and Saiqua are also facilitators on our ECF programme. We thank them for inviting us into their staffroom and sharing a coffee with us.Ìý

Elaine LongÌý

Please do get in touch with us if you'd like to talk to us about your ECF experience. We especially want to hear from a range of voices. And lastly, we hope you'll join us next time for a biscuit and a chat with another colleague in the ECF staffroom.Ìý

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